Horacio Capel: "We can now talk about Posthumanity and post-nature"
After more than fifty years of doing research and teaching as geographer, the emeritus lecturer from the University of Barcelona Horcaio Capel has decided to write his memoirs: Azares y decisions (Doce Calles). He talks about his personal experiences as well as his task as researcher and teacher at the UB since the sixties, and his international activity. The expert on European geography, who received the Vautrin Lud Prize -regarded as the Nobel Prize of this discipline- reflects on the memoirs of former and current cities and changes on the study of geography during the last decades.
After more than fifty years of doing research and teaching as geographer, the emeritus lecturer from the University of Barcelona Horcaio Capel has decided to write his memoirs: Azares y decisions (Doce Calles). He talks about his personal experiences as well as his task as researcher and teacher at the UB since the sixties, and his international activity. The expert on European geography, who received the Vautrin Lud Prize -regarded as the Nobel Prize of this discipline- reflects on the memoirs of former and current cities and changes on the study of geography during the last decades.
In the book, you say we live in a sometimes “mistakenly postmodern” society. What do you mean with that?
Postmodernity is a multi-valued term, and sometimes it carries ambiguity. There are aspects from postmodernity which are important and positive: reconstruction of history, the idea of social complexity, emphasis on singularity… But, at the same time, there are negative aspects: the postmodernistsʼ denial of utopia and the idea of progress, the disappointment, extreme scepticism, this looks negative, like the disagreement to big liberating and transforming narratives, such as the Illustration. I think, in some way, postmodernity is linked to neo-liberal politics. This rejection to great narrations explained the critics to public regulation. Neoliberal politics according to which a smaller state is better for the society, looks like a big mistake to me. Actually, the state is the only political and social structure ever created and put into practice to raise means and re-distribute them, for equality and social balance, through the public health system, investments, or distributing resources through retirement and unemployment benefits.
In this book, you also talk about a promising future for small cities.
I think big cities used to be better regarding opportunities, for the employment, education, culture. The bigger, the better. At this moment, the situation has changed a lot. The most developed countries, differences between the country -rural world- and the urban world have been reduced. People living in small towns or in isolated villages have a similar behavior and information to the ones in the city. They watch the same television, they read the same newspapers, and they receive the same information via telephone: they access all information and the universal library Borges talked about. We are in a phase of generalized urbanization, from a statistical perspective as well as the typical urban behavior. I know people in Catalonia who live in a house and have a farm with pigs and cows and they are in contact with the futures markets in Chicago. On the other hand, people living in the city have to move to the outskirts to work, because factories and services are there. You can reach the industries and services at the same time from small and mid-cities, if these are accessible through communication systems.
This situation of a generalized urbanization can tell why some say Catalonia is urban, we have heard of Catalonia-city. Nowadays, living in a small city from where you can reach Barcelona means living in a cheaper house and having a pleasant daily life.
After so many years working on geography, what are the most interesting topics as an object of study at the moment? What should young geographers work on?
I think the main issue is for youngsters to be aware of the problems of the current world. Climate change, extinction of species, diversity degradation, new ways of work which are being generalized, robotics, artificial intelligence, generalized urbanization, real estate, urban agents and social change. Some author said itʼs not humanity but post-humanity. I do not agree with that, because people can act on human life through genetic engineering, prosthesis. Actually, it is not natural evolution but the evolution in which the man takes part. I wrote something on this, I thought we could similarly talk about post-nature. I heard a geologist in a conference, he was a professor from the University of Cantabria, who determined the land movements by men through new infrastructures, highways, buildings, beaches…, and he estimated it was similar to the erosive ability of nature.
This is the situation we could consider post-nature. Youngsters have to be aware of this. Itʼs not about seeing the problem but thinking about alternatives, solution. Providing proposals to debate in public and reach democratic agreements on the solution to world problems, not in a dogmatic way but in a modest way, to correct whatever is not right in every proposal.
In the book, you talk about the work at the University. Is there any continuity element between the UB you met when you moved to Barcelona, in the sixties, and the current one?
We could easily agree on the fact that the current university is better than the one from the sixties, during the Franco regime. Now, in the sixties all students and lecturers had high expectations. We hoped things could get better and would get better with economic development, entering Europe, democratization. At that moment, and now too, the university is better than what we hear. I think both in the sixties and at the present time, people work a lot at the university, and many of them do it well.
I am privileged to say that at my age, I come every morning to the Department at the University. I think my generation could help the University, because of our experience and international contacts, and this could help the young ones. I think we help in several fields. For instance, regarding the management of Geo Crítica. Then, we have three science journals: Scripta nova, on scientific articles; Biblio3w, on bibliography, information science and state of the affairs, and Ar@cne, on Internet resources for social sciences. These journals have a high impact and are in known databases, so even though we publish sixty articles per year, we receive about three hundred. This requires reading the articles, selecting eighty or a hundred to send them to external readers, make an evaluation and report, and then publish them. In this case, the collaboration of a retiree can be useful. Also, we organize the international colloquiums for Geo Crítica, held in Barcelona and in American cities: Mexico, Bogota, Porto Alegre, Buenos Aires, etc. The next Geo Crítica colloquium will be held at the University of São Paulo, in Brazil, on the human action and climatic change and consequences on water resources. Also, we have the international symposiums on history of electrification. The last one was held in May at the University of Évora, organized by Geo Crítica and CIDEHUS, a prestigious multidisciplinary research center.
Lecturers with experience are not encourage to collaborate in mastersʼ degrees, publication of journals, organization of conferences or giving conferences for old people. I feel privileged to take part in those.
As a researcher, what are the great methodological revolutions geography has undergone?
We lived two deep revolutions: the quantitative, theoretical, neo-positivist revolution, since it developed in the sixties and got here in the late seventies. After the impugnation of the quantitative revolution for the critic, humanist and post-modern geography. This brought new perspectives, gave way to deep debates that enriched social sciences. After the eighties, the most important change has been the impact of the new communication and information technologies, which enable new studies and require new skills. These require a mathematical training, or a technical training that wasnʼt necessary before, and at the same time, being in contact with territorial and social reality.
I want to highlight another aspect: professional careers. In the sixties, the main career was education: you could be a lecturer in high school, a lecturer of geography and history, at the university and researcher in some center. In the seventies, there was a debate on the possibility of a geography applied to business and society, and economy. Some agreed with it and others rejected this idea because they said the most scientific side of the discipline could disappear. This was solved during the two last decades through new careers. Geographers take part in the territory system, take part in the local and regional development and planning, in social, economic and territorial diagnostic. Many times, this enriched geography and brought new perspectives.
Last, why a memoir book?
People from my generation has seen many changes so we have to leave evidence. This is what I try to say when I talk about a small city, Llorca, where I lived, and about experiences, jobs and traditions that can come from ancient times. I think we have to tell more about these changes. I hope friends who read my book get excited to write their own memoirs on life, academic and professional fields. This could be a partial and biased autobiography: I do accept it. But there are many, and some find balance, and this is the chance to reconstruct the past and the change.